It’s All Too Easy! /cry
I’m sorry, I know I’m not nearly in the majority about this subject but, as such, I feel I have to shout louder than the lot of ye’ about it. *ahem*
I’m talking about the post 3.0.2 “omg the instances got hit by a nerf bat and we all hate it, wah!” stuff that’s been going around. Something like here, and here. My take on it is more like what BBB(BBBBBBB) says here.
I’m a little saddened to see attitudes like this:
Considering how easy it went I’d be surprised if we didn’t kill Illidan pretty soon. Which of course is fun and nice in one way, but still I can’t help feeling slightly disappointed. Will we get any more epic raiding experience at all before the expansion? Maybe in Sunwell. That’s my hope. Because if Sunwell isn’t better, this patch was the end to raiding in TBC the way that we knew it. Now it’s not the real stuff. It’s badge and gear farming. That’s the sad truth.
I miss the wipe nights already.
and
It was rather ridiculous, really. The difficulty is gone, and with it some of the enjoyment. We still have some new content to poke at, Sunwell, which I expect we’ll see soon, and I expect some challenge there, but to have Illidan in his previous form stolen from us is somewhat disappointing.
from Larísa and Namthe - two bloggers whom I respect greatly. It’s not only them but one or two guildmates who have mentioned a similar “Oh, it’s terrible, I hate doing this” sort of attitude.
This whole scenario reminds me a lot of the whole 2.4 situation.
Yes, it is easier, much easier. Ridiculously easy for people who are geared for it and who were on the verge of completing the content. I know, in my heart, that Lightwalkers would have gotten down a pre-nerf Council this week and might have had a few shots at Illidan.
However - those few guilds still raiding will understand when I say that it’s been hard to keep people coming back to those raids. We were struggling to fill that 25 man group every week and might not have even been able to go to Black Temple two out of three nights for lack of a tank or healer.
Personally, I got to do something I wanted to do since I started raiding - stand at Illidan’s feet. I have now seen all of Black Temple, I’m happy even if it is ‘post-nerf’. We’re going to visit Illidan tomorrow night (we had no FR tanks so we didn’t try him more than for giggles on Sunday night) and we might take his nerfed rear down. We’ll get to see Black Temple to completion.
Raiding is for fun. There’s no fun in no challenge all the time but this is not meant to be challenging content any more. This is also not how new content will be. This is the time to go, kill some bosses, get some nice levelling gear and complete those achievements. This is a time to run through a raid instance without the trials, tribulations and stress usually associated with them. Instead of crying about lost chances please think of looking to these next few weeks as a time for fun, rest and relaxation before the new ‘raiding season’ starts again in a month or so. It’s also a very nice way for dps and tanks to try out their new specs and make tweaks without sacrificing their raid viability to do so.
As stated by BBB:
Suddenly, it was as though we had finally been given that feeling that Tier 6 raiders have long known… the joys of fighting something you know very, very well… with the power to hand it a serious beating… but without making it a 3 man snoozefest.
I can’t agree with him enough - whilst I won’t be patting myself on the back if kill Illidan tommorrow night I will still enjoy it!
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Oh, I am disappointed from my own point of view. But you must understand from where I’m coming. I only got into raiding 25 man content this spring, in the beginning of april. And some more serious raiding I didn’t try until august. The 25 man raiding wipe feast concept, where you fight rediculously hard to beat content and progress is still new, exciting, challenging and very very fun to me. You must see I’m a TBC newbie player and I havent played since WoW Vanillia Beta, I haven’t done the old world raid instances and so on. If you’ve been raiding for three or four years a break of a month is nothing. If you’re a newbie with sparkling eyes it is a long time. And the break will be much, much longer for me I think, with the limited game time I have it will take a long time to get back to raiding fitness. I don’t expect to raid again until in the beginning of next year, at the earliest.
On the other hand even though I’m disappointed from my perspetive I don’t disapprove of the fact that more player will be able to raid and gear up this last month. I understand the reasons for the nerf and I accept it, which you can see from my replies to the comment of my post.
I know my comments might seem a little harsh, I didn’t mean them to be over-the-top, just to illustrate the disappointment I had in the general downheartedness of peoples’ views - it’s not about gearing up and so on, it’s more about people being upset over such a change rather than trying to take it in the best light.
I’m actually very new to raiding myself - only having started maybe 7 or 8 months ago! :)
/hugs
My name is Cassini and I endorse this blog post.
Yeah raiding is nerfed into the ground. Yeah encounters are a bit ‘too easy’ these days. But you know what? It’s a good thing. It really is. As Aurik says, it’s simply to allow as many people as possible to see as much raid content as possible. I think Blizzard have learnt from Naxx in Classic WoW, where pretty much nobody got to see much of it.
We cleared Black Temple before the patch. We couldn’t get past Kalecgos in Sunwell though due to the insane amount of gearing up we needed to do in BT/MH still - which Larisa will know can get boring when farming it takes so long. ;) This patch should allow us to see more of Sunwell now - heck you never know - we may even get to see KJ in the next couple of weeks depending on how lucky we get with loot and how much the nerf has affected it (we haven’t been there post patch yet). Ok so the sense of acheivement may not be there, but it will be real nice to actually see the content we’ve missed out on.
In the same way this has benefited us, I’m sure it will benefit everybody else. Whether your guild had only seen as far as Moroes and can now see the rest of Karazhan, or like us, you were stuck at Kalecgos and can get to see more of Sunwell.
Post expansion, the vast majority of people won’t revisit level 70 raiding content - you only have to look at how few level 60 content raids are organised to see this - so this little interlude before WotLK hits could be a lot of people’s last chance to do so and the nerf is invaluable in this aim.
Oh and PS> Larisa if you haven’t seen the level 60 content, I would recommend paying a visit to Molten Core (the acheivements mean getting a group now is actually possible!) as it’s an epic place, and Ragnaros is simply awesome! Of course, try not to get a full 40 man raid else you won’t get the chance to see the fight play out over the various stages. ;)
It just…stole the epicness of our icons of lore, I suppose. I’m not raiding anymore, I never got to see Illidan or even the inside of Sunwell. But it makes me a little sad that people are killing Illidan before he even reaches his Demon phase. Yeah, lots of people can now see content…but it’s not the same content.
I dunno. I can see both sides to it.
I guess I’m just a very sick person who enjoys the pain and the stress and the sorrows of traditional raiding more than running through content in easy mode.
@Cassini: yeah I’ve don AQ20 and AQ40 and it was great fun, I loved the egyptian influenced scenery a lot. But as you say you miss phases. Like the end boss of AQ40, he went down instantly with a full raid of full epic 70 raiding nerds from our server. I had hoped to see his stomach from inside, but nooo…
But most of the pugs for those places are run at early hours and daytime and are impossible for me to attend because of my limited playtime.
Anyway I’m glad to be in a guild which keeps raiding. Even though the epicness has faded a lot, as Bellwether points out.
Firstly: congratulations on downing Illidan last night.
Now, down to business. I’m very much in agreemeent with Larísa. Wipe nights are fun - once you can consistently do the content, it gets boring.
I don’t have any problem with increased accessibility for the content for the miniscule amount of time before it goes obsolete - nor with people getting some nice gear to help them level (though as I’ve said elsewhere, it isn’t going to last as long as anyone thinks).
It’s just, for me, the journey, not the destination is the interesting part.
Gratz on Illidan. A cleared content is a cleared content. It’s blizzard wanting more than 1% of the population to see some content unlike NAxx where everybody quit playing a month before TBC came out. I’m glad they did it. Although I understand that some people may feel they got rob out of the epic experience. I still have my t1,t2,t3 sets in the bank because of the memories attached to them so I totally get it =). Now for sunwell we’ll see if I’ll do the same.
But that being said from the majority of people who hasn’t seen Illidan it’s a big one if your into seeing content or the the rich lore of Warcraft or see Kiljaeden(he’s entrance is just pure win).
So get out there and keep clearing content you haven’t!
Namthe: Wipe nights can. indeed, be fun and personally, yes, I prefer progress raiding over killing bosses I’ve downed a hundred times before…
However, this, to me, was like the last day at school before the summer holidays - it was school, but you rarely do work and you get away with more than usual! It’s time to have fun, loosen up and, as Herc says, enjoy the content before it’s whisked away from us.
Like Naxx, Sunwell would only have been for a handful of people but now others have the chance to see it before we move on to newer pastures.
Herc and Cassini: I think you caught what I meant (which, I admittedly probably didn’t explain as best I could at 4am when this came into my head Xx) - it’s a chance for us all to see that bit of something before it becomes an old school instance which really has no challenge at all.
/hugs to you all.