3.2 Is Stealin’ Mah Epics!
Time for a re-link of an old post. This was one I was going to link with the 200th post link-fest but decided that it wasn’t really relevant any more, because badges in Wrath were tiered and the situation was completely different to back when you could farm heroics for BT / MH level gear…
The recent patch notes, however, seems to have set the community all aflutter. My viewpoint, as expressed via the linked post, hasn’t really changed since they big hoo-haa of 2.4 and all the high level raiders crying about people getting ‘their’ epics.
2.4 is Stealin’ Mah Epics!
Whilst I did like the idea of a tiered badge system the current one was, to my mind, too complex and the rewards not really ‘worth’ the badge cost given how slow it can be to accrue the marks if you’re not clearing Ulduar every week (we do not bad, but summer blues and a spate of bad luck have shaved our raiding days down at the moment).
But we did it the hard way!
The problem with saying that people should suck it up and go do it the ‘proper’ way is that they are limited – people who can’t be online a full 2-4 hours to do a raid, people who can only grab the odd heroic here and there, people who don’t want to leave family guilds just to get into a raiding guild and people who just can’t find a Naxx raiding guild who need or want them consistently. Just because your situation allows for it, doesn’t mean everyone’s does.
What do they need the gear for? Well, they want their character to progress and grow just like anyone else. They want to be able to do things easier and pump out bigger numbers – whether it be tps, hps, or dps. Everyone wants their character to grow – consider how frustrating the last boss in Oculus and the biggest complaint which is levelled against it – ‘no matter what gear we’re in, that fight is always the same’. Imagine not upgrading your gear for the whole ‘end-game’ period of the expansion just because you can’t play with the big boys. You might not ‘need’ the upgrade, but it still sure feels good to get a shiny once in a while and progress your character.
And we don’t even need to go into why it would be good for rerolls or late starters… If 2.4 hadn’t introduced the badge epics I wouldn’t be playing my shaman now as it was the only way I could get upgraded enough to go straight from Kara to MH / BT with my guild when I was tired of playing my rogue.
Old Content is Old
At the end of the day, when content becomes ‘old’ there is no reason it shouldn’t become ‘easy’ to get. It’s not like they’re saying ‘here, take a full suit of epix for absolutely no time invested’ – you still need to go out, do Naxx, do Heroics, do Ulduar and work towards a goal.
Although clearing Naxx is not too hard for some – neither was clearing Kara by the time the 2.4 badges arrived – granted Naxx is still easier but it’s also still a limited number per week. Heroics, whilst also easier, have become hard to get groups for and I can only hope that this change will mean an upsurge in groups for late-comers or people with alt-itis like me.
If you want to work through a tier at that tier’s level, that’s cool – but not everyone does and it’s not just because they’re loot-whores. Sometimes when you’re working with a sub-skilled group you need the gear to make the difference. ‘But the bads shouldn’t get to see content then’. It’s a bloody game. Grow up - I learned to share my toys when I was a kid, didn’t you? People play to have fun, not to have twitch-fingered little jerks who know how to play a damn video game better than they can laugh at them.
But but…
You want your epeen? That what your achievements panel is for. Gear is gear, people are people and this is a game in which most of what you have now will be obsolete within half a year.
…and jeez, it might not even happen.
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You tell em Aurik! ;)
Complete and utter agreement! We casuals recognize that people aren’t going to be happy about this, and sure, we’re upset we can’t do it the “hard” way either, but MAN I’m glad I might finally be able to see some of the content.
I am very much with you. I mean, I know I will continue running Ulduar, and I won’t farm Naxx. But at the same time, I don’t begrudge people easy epics. I loved the Sunwell badge gear too. At the time I only did Kara and ZA, and it was awesome to actually get gear upgrades without being forced to do 25-mans.
I agreed with you then and I agree with you now. The people saying “Oh what’s the point of even raiding now” or “They’re giving away free T8″ really annoy me. How does it in one way affect you or your past achievements?
Many people do not have the time, and some people who have the time might not want to be in a serious raiding guild.
It’s not even necessarily sharing, people in Ulduar gear don’t have to share or give up anything.
[...] really broke, instead of the slap in the face that Ulduar raiders perceive it as. Also check out Aurik’s view over at /hug, it’s a view I pretty much agree with. Filed under : instances, ramblings | [...]
Agree 100%!
I don’t know how I feel about it – I’m inclined to disagree with you, actually (I feel almost bad doing so – everyone else here is in full agreement). I can understand Naxx10 dropping Conquest Emblems, but 5 man heroics? I mean, make people work a teeeeny bit at least to get T8.5 badge loot.
“The people saying “Oh what’s the point of even raiding now” or “They’re giving away free T8″ really annoy me. How does it in one way affect you or your past achievements?”
It doesn’t affect me or my past achievements in the sense that they’re literally taken away, but it *does* invalidate the work my guild put into it, unfortunately. You put X amount of work into something and get Y. When X is drastically and suddenly reduced to basically 0 but you still get Y, it’s a little disconcerting.
Eventually all content will be trivialized, due to gear upgrades and level increases. That’s inevitable, certainly. But the sudden sharp increase of trivialization (ie, making rewards accessible through 5 man heroics suddenly, rather than 25 man Ulduar) is just too sharp a change. I guess it comes down to the fact that I still think casual players should put in a bit of effort to get the same rewards as hardcore raiders. Not AS much, perhaps, especially since once 3.2 comes, it’ll be a tier behind us, and also, because casuals typically don’t have as much time as hardcore raiders, but still SOME effort. And I guess I don’t think that 5 man heroics count as effort. =/
It’s not about my epeen… it’s about the time, sweat, and blood my guild and I put into this instance, and having the reward we got for it be attainable by FAR less effort in the near future. I understand not wanting to have to have players run Naxx, and then Ulduar, over and over and then finally they’re ready for 3.2’s instance. But I think 5 man heroics are just far too easy to be worthy of awarding people T8.5 tokens.
Averna,
If 5 man heroics don’t drop COnquest tokens than you’re still forcing people to run through older raid content like Naxx again…which is what this is also trying to avoid.
Yes running Naxx will result in more, but its still a raid meaning you have to find a large group, dedicate hours to do it, and hope your group is geared or not-blowing it off so you don’t wipe or have to call it quits.
Dedicated raiders will runn Naxx for the tokens, and probably do it fairly easy and efficiently. For others they can slowly gather them through 5 mans and occasional PUGs for Naxx.
As to it devalueing your achievement? Ragnaros and Onyxia back in the day was hard work, many hours, coming up with strategies (no PTR, no BOsskilers.com, no guild videos/strats)…and now people can solo or at least 2 man these bosses. Doesn’t take away my achievement becasue I did it back then and some had to wait awhile to do it. Same thing here just a shorter time frame.
I completely agree with you, other people having gear that the ‘hardcore’ crowd ‘worked their asses of for’ isn’t going to hurt anyone. Some people just can’t get past their elitism and their self-entitlement garbage because they feel that their package of pixels is better than everyone elses.
Fantastic post and the first time I have read it. I agree with every point of it. Thank you.